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spector

Modified V-Diet (Liquid Psmf)

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Spector - how did you find this diet worked out once your lifts were getting up there? I've been grinding out around 220 lbs. for the last couple months, and my lifts feel like they're getting near their limits. I don't want to lose a ton of strength (doing 5/3/1. PRs on left, but I'm close to those right now - 300sq/210bn/150ohp/395dl - for my regular workouts).

Was that frozen coconut dried, or still meaty? I love coconut. :)

When I first did it, my lifts weren't too far off from what you listed and I actually got quite a bit stronger during the 4 weeks. I did it again earlier this year and actually did a run of smolov JR for OHP and Rows at the same time and put 10-15lbs on my OHP during the cut, if I recall. I'm actually in the midst of a 2 week run of it right now and strength is still 100%.

As long as protein is high and you are lifting heavy enough to make your body build new muscle or keep old muscle around, there is no reason to lose strength when cutting. Your body should be able to make up the needed calories for muscle maintenance and some growth by pulling from fat reserves. The stimulus matters more than calories ingested, as long as protein is high enough. Even just working up to a heavy 3-5RM once per week on the major lifts will be enough to keep the stimulus high.

Edit: whoops, I missed your last question. The frozen coconut is still very meaty. You can also by dried, but I would add ice to the smoothie.

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I agree, it hasn't impacted my strength any, just stamina when it comes to kickboxing/cardio type stuff. I've had a good boost in strength rehabbing back from the injury I got when I passed out.

The coconut is sold in the frozen section of my supermarket and is shredded coconut meat. I thaw it out in the fridge before using it in my shakes. A good blender is needed to get the coconut ground up enough. Otherwise you may have to choke some of the solid bits down. I got a Ninja blender that I'm happy with.

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Also, casein protein is a must. It's amazing how good some vanilla casein, banana and coconut oil can taste. It makes a nice banana custard.

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Also, casein protein is a must. It's amazing how good some vanilla casein, banana and coconut oil can taste. It makes a nice banana custard.

100%. Trying to do a liquid diet on whey is a really, really bad idea. Actually, using just whey in general isn't a great idea. Casein, egg, and beef protein are all better choices. These days I just use whey as filler and another protein always forms the base of my shake. Muscle Meds Carnivor beef protien is delicious, btw. The vanilla caramel and chocolate flavors are fantastic.

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I've got a bunch of proteins, one pure casein and a couple blends too. Might need to invest in another casein. I'll likely look at doing this once my current cycle of 5/3/1 is done, which is 4 weeks from now. I'll see if I can find frozen coconut. I've never seen it, but I've never really looked. The shakes sound pretty good. My favorite right now is a scoop of vanilla, almond-coconut milk, almond butter and a banana.

Did you use any other supps? Creatine? I use C4 before every workout and Purple PsyKO as my intra and lift in the morning (5am).

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I've got a bunch of proteins, one pure casein and a couple blends too. Might need to invest in another casein. I'll likely look at doing this once my current cycle of 5/3/1 is done, which is 4 weeks from now. I'll see if I can find frozen coconut. I've never seen it, but I've never really looked. The shakes sound pretty good. My favorite right now is a scoop of vanilla, almond-coconut milk, almond butter and a banana.

Did you use any other supps? Creatine? I use C4 before every workout and Purple PsyKO as my intra and lift in the morning (5am).

Publix carries it, but I don't think they have those up where you are. If not, your basic unsweetened coconut meat would work. Are you using just one scoop of protein in the shake you listed? I make something fairly similar though I usually use 3 scoops.

As for other supplements, I take BCAAs before most workouts. Sometimes Purple wrath before a really high-volume workout and then sometimes Xtend before a heavier workout along with some Alpha GPC. I don't do too well with stimulants other than caffeine (though I do drink a lot of coffee) so I don't take any preWO stuff like that.

For "nutrition" supplements, I take high-DHA fish oil, fermented cod liver oil & butter oil, magnesium and zinc (making your own zma is cheaper than buying it), vitamin d, and a multivitamin as well as some other things i take less often.

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For "nutrition" supplements, I take high-DHA fish oil, fermented cod liver oil & butter oil, magnesium and zinc (making your own zma is cheaper than buying it), vitamin d, and a multivitamin as well as some other things i take less often.

Add creatine monohydrate and we would be in alignment, Keenan :) Didn't you mention you also took some iodine?

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Are you using just one scoop of protein in the shake you listed? I make something fairly similar though I usually use 3 scoops.

Right now it's about 1-1.5 on most mornings. Since it's just my post-WO shake and not the main of my diet, it's a little more involved than what I'd likely do if I did the modded PSMF. Right now a shake consists of:

1-1.5 scoops protein

2 tbsp Greek yogurt (home made!)

1 tbsp almond butter

5g creatine

1 banana

1 cup almond-coconut milk

So there's some added protein with the yogurt and almond butter. I'll have to add up the macros and see what I can keep in the shakes going forward and what I'd need to cut out to match up with my V-Diet calculator results.

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Add creatine monohydrate and we would be in alignment, Keenan :) Didn't you mention you also took some iodine?

D'oh, yeah, I take NOW brand "thyroid energy", which has iodine and tyrosine and whatnot. Forgot about that one. I do take creatine from time to time as well, but I eat so much meat I don't make it a priority.

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D'oh, yeah, I take NOW brand "thyroid energy", which has iodine and tyrosine and whatnot. Forgot about that one. I do take creatine from time to time as well, but I eat so much meat I don't make it a priority.

I've stuck to half a tab of Source Naturals' Potassium Iodide for now. Should really re-run my bloods to see what's up with the thyroid output following a few months of supplementaiton.

In addition to well-publicised ATP system properties, I am supplementing with creatine for its alleged myostatin inhibition properties. It's cheap, and I don't eat _that_ much red meat.

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I had never heard of alpha GPC before so I did a little research and decided to give it a try. It sounds as if some if the research is relatively new.

Are you using it for the cognitive, strength or growth hormone benefits? I suppose all of the above are good reasons.

I've been on it for two days now and I don't know if it's placebo but I've been really productive since I've started on it - my mind feels nice and energized. I also feel like I'm a bit more social and talkative.

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I actually started taking it a few years ago when I was experimenting with Piracetam (also an interesting sup) and needed a good source of choline to go with it. I still occasionally take piracetam, but I notice that alpha GPC by itself seems to give more mental "focus" on occasion. I don't take it much, probably 1-2x a week.

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I went a little hyper over this weekend with household projects. I cleaned out an old room, fixed a bunch of things and rearranged some stuff in the house, etc. I just felt mentally "up to it". It's most likely coincidence but the only change I had was adding in alpha GPC.

From what I've read it increases growth hormones but the benefits of temporary boosts there are debatable. On T Nation they mentioned a guy adding in 30 lbs to his OHP but I find that hard to believe that was the result of a single supplement. I'm at my longtime max on OHP and it was still a struggle for me. I do have a mentally exhausting and challenging job so I'm curious to see if I get any benefits there.

As far as the diet goes I'm starting my final week now. I'm down 12.5 lbs, which is 2 lbs more than expected, but my bioelectric impedance readings are not as positive. They were at 12.5% when I started and are at around 10.9% now. By my original calculations I estimated I should have been around 9.8% by now.

However, it's not all bad. The visual changes have been rather remarkable. I have abs are showing for the first time in my life.

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As far as the diet goes I'm starting my final week now. I'm down 12.5 lbs, which is 2 lbs more than expected, but my bioelectric impedance readings are not as positive. They were at 12.5% when I started and are at around 10.9% now. By my original calculations I estimated I should have been around 9.8% by now.

LOL...I mean this in the nicest possible way...but STFU! :P

Seriously, nice work. I'm hoping I'll see the same sort of results when I get there in a few weeks. I would imagine your readings will prove to be off with an impedence unit. I've noticed on my scale with the same function it varies widely. Mostly says I'm at like 27% bodyfat, but overall with a caliper I currently come in around 15-17%.

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Understood :)

I think I get this mental block when I cut back and I start thinking I'm fat and losing all my lean mass at the same time.

I think it really takes about a week or so after a diet is over to judge the results.

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Agreed. I've been sitting around 222-224 for the last, I don't know, 3-4 weeks or so? My lifts are mostly going up, but still, not dropping weight is a little depressing.

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Have you tried doing a refeed? Those have a habit of flushing me out when fat loss gets stagnant.

My results so far from this diet have been good enough that I think I may use it as an occasional cycle when needed. I hate spending a long time in a calorie deficit.

After this is over I may give it another try after an 8-12 week madcow run. That is if I need it.

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Agreed. I've been sitting around 222-224 for the last, I don't know, 3-4 weeks or so? My lifts are mostly going up, but still, not dropping weight is a little depressing.

Are you measuring your girth? Sometimes I find the inches coming off while the weight stays the same. As long as there is some positive movement I stay the course. However, sometimes the body just gets used to what you were doing, you you just need to switch it up to throw off your body's natural adjustments.

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To be honest, I'm only vaguely trying to "lose weight". I like increasing my lifts more than losing weight. I've managed to bump my bench past my old sticking point (around 215) to get it to 230 right now. Put up 225 on my own (no spotter) earlier this week and it didn't feel any heavier than 200 did a few weeks ago. So that's a win.

Lately, I do re-feeds more frequently than I should. :blink:

My diet is still pretty clean overall, so I don't think I'm gaining any fat at all. And if by "losing inches" you mean my pants get tigher 'cause my butt is getting bigger...well, that's probably not what you mean. :)

In addition, hockey just started, so "cardio" is on the rise.

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With 4 days to go I'm getting desperate for the refeed. A huge plate of steamed broccoli sounds like heaven to me right now.

I'm feeling so damn little also. I weighed in at 157 this morning. I need to start getting some lean mass on me.

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Ah, I see. I googled "Omron" and only got Blood pressure monitors.

Anyway, those electrical BF testers aren't too useful. You're much better off doing calipers, taking measurements, and (my personal favorite) strength/weight ratio.

I did caliper measurements yesterday, both 3 and 4 point. I must have done them wrong because they came out to 7%. Then I tried pinching up as much tissue as possible and then came out at 8%. There is no way I could be that low. If I was I should end the diet today and get back to building strength. Bioelectric impedance is showing 10.5%.

Three days to go but I'm going to end my Friday night workout by doing a refeed since my glycogen stores are low.

Starting up next week I think I'll switch to Madcow and a modest surplus diet.

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@michail, there's no such thing as a perfect measurement system. Calipers, by definition, can only measure subcutaneous fat. The formulas estimate total body fat including the intra-abdominal fat.

At this point you should be able to look in the mirror and see some definition in your abs--if you are truly around 10%. Check out: http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages

The lower your real BF% the more defined your abs will be.

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@michail, there's no such thing as a perfect measurement system. Calipers, by definition, can only measure subcutaneous fat. The formulas estimate total body fat including the intra-abdominal fat. At this point you should be able to look in the mirror and see some definition in your abs--if you are truly around 10%. Check out: http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages The lower your real BF% the more defined your abs will be.

Yes, I have abdominal definition now. It's a freakish thing to finally see on myself after 40 years of life. Though, the visual abdominal definition isn't what I'd say would be around an 8% range. I've noticed people can have a wide variety in appearance at similar body fat levels. It could be thrown off by the fact I'm a hairy guy. Lighting, body hair and posture can make a difference in the photos I suppose.

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Hurricane Sandy just woke me up early (4 AM) and I decided to end the diet today, a day early, since my strength and stamina have started to tank the past couple of days. I'm going to do my Friday workout and then spend the day doing a low fat/high carb refeed.

If these numbers are correct it looks like I would have lost 7.5 lbs of lean mass and 5.7 lbs of fat. I don't think that could be correct or could it? If I throw away my first measurement (I lost 5 lbs over night) and take my second day's reading it comes out to 3.1 lbs of lean mass and 5.1 lbs of fat, which still doesn't sound all that great.

A three point caliper measurement is telling me 7.4% but I did not take a caliper measurement to start. The measurements below are from hand held bioelectric impedance.

Weight

170 lbs (77.1 kg)

156.8 (71.1 kg)

Body Fat

12.5%

9.9%

Waist

30.7 in (78 cm)

29.1 in (74cm)

Whatever the numbers show I look as if I finally shed off the belly/visceral fat that I've always had and have a better fat distribution pattern. Now it's time to put on some lean mass.

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After being off the diet now for two weeks I wanted to thank Keenan for posting this thread. I've been very pleased with the results. After over one and a half years of lifting I finally look and feel great. I needed that long time cut to get myself from 20%+ down to 13%. This diet helped me get from 13%-ish to somewhere around 10% or less in a short amount of time. The new size 30 pants I just got are even a bit lose :).

I'm now refocused on longer term goals of getting stronger and leaner. I'm in my second week of 9 for a madcow run and then I'll follow up with a shorter 2-3 week run of the modified Liquid Velocity Diet.

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