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Wat wat???

Upper back tightness is grip width. Elbows up is to keep weight off arms

Latest video by rip. needs viewing.

May I direct you to the stats under Juggernowik's avater pic, you will find that Daniel is a very good squatter and he knows what he's talking about, especially when it comes to technique and spotting mistakes. He trains with a pretty experienced bunch of lifters.

Hate to break it to you, but Coach Rip isn't the authority on lifting.

EliteFTS also encourage elbows down to encourage tightness.

I suggest you do research outside of coach rip before answering posts with that tone.

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Heh I did the reverse to what you said. I have used lower elbows in the past. I've changed to raised elbows. Nothing else changed wrist angle was always straight. Grip width same. Now no pain. Just expressing my experiences. I thought that's what we did here? I don't post my stats.they are in my book and that is where they will stay. I was a couple sessions off a x2 bw squat mid this year before work travel then euro trip. These aren't big lifts since I ain't a big guy but I have as much experience as others here

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Bolly, I don't think it's your method that people are taking issue with, but rather the attitude with which you threw it on the table.

What works for some people may not work for other -- lifting is a very personal thing. So saying that Rip's video needs review, and that his opinion is the only one worth anything, is both disrespectful and untrue.

The guys above responded in kind.

Let's all keep it civil. We're all here for the same reason.

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I don't get it. Does my English need reviewing?

Should I have said

"some suggested viewing would be rips video "?

The only difference there being need and suggested. If I told you to jump off a cliff. Would you?

What else have I said? Mentioning ouch comments when viewing a video? I'm not the first to do this and certainly not the last. Conflicting views? Nobody is right or wrong. Whoever you get advice from is just another person with his own views and experience. These matters are up for discussion. This is what we are here to do. If you believe I am wrong then say so and explain with reasoning. Don't target my 'attitude' and trail off topic about it

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Wat wat???

Upper back tightness is grip width. Elbows up is to keep weight off arms

Latest video by rip. needs viewing.

This does just simply not sound like an "oppinion". The definite nature of your short sentences, the "wat" and especially that last part just come across as "These are the facts, deal with it" instead of "Hey bro, I´m just voicing my experience here".

But back to the "elbows under the bar":

It helps me with keeping my arch. Just try it whilst sitting and you´ll notice how your chest goes up immediately and how the arch starts in the upper back and extends over the whole back.

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Bolly,

There are ways of expressing your opinions.

Really you could've just said this in the first place:

"I did the reverse to what you said. I have used lower elbows in the past. I've changed to raised elbows. Nothing else changed wrist angle was always straight. Grip width same. Now no pain"

Rather than "wat wat? Etc etc"

Then your posts won't be taken the wrong way or wind people up.

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I'm with you all the way on that one Tuplad!!! :)

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I've seen this "upper back caving in" somewhere recently. Can't remember where. Will this occur at some point using the rip method with elbows raised? I need to be aware of what may begin to happen with greater load...

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I don't see the point in listening to geared lifters if someone never plans to compete geared. But there's no definite right or wrong, just what works for you.

You can prevent the upper back caving in by keeping your chest up when you squat.

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I don't see the point in listening to geared lifters if someone never plans to compete geared.

Like it or not, but the geared guys are pretty strong RAW, too. It´s not like you can just put on on a suit and expect to squat 300kg+...depending on the suit (i.e. single or multiply) you still need a RAW 1RM of 250kg or something. My point: They know how to squat. Their style changes, once they wear the suit (wider stance, more sitting back), but they still know what to do!

Now if we look at the upper body, it even makes sense to listen to them. I´d argue that you need more tightness in your entire upper body when you squat 320kg than when you can "only" squat 220kg. The suit doesn´t help with that. Now why shouldn´t we listen to guys that have discovered a trick or two to make the setup tighter, keep your arch and so on?

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Anyone have some advice on what if any assistance work would help with getting out the hole on the squat. Obviously I know squatting more will strengthen that - but the reason for asking is because I feel like I almost stop short on heavy squats of hitting true parallel ONLY because once I descend that extra inch I seem to lose all power and fail.

I have been going ATG on lower weight sets - as well as pausing at the bottom of the movement - but this still doesn't solve the problem, as I know from my recent 120 lift - it wasn't parallel (not far off) but that is because there is this demon in my head telling me once I go that extra inch I am not getting back out, so stop short of parallel but get the rep.

Just wondering if a specific exercise can be added as assistance to target whatever weakness this is....

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I would just deload and work on technique to be honest. No need to complicate things at this stage.

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I would just deload and work on technique to be honest. No need to complicate things at this stage.

I already have - probably 3 times since starting in Jan. Each time it gets over 110 kgs, I face the same issue. When I started 531 I dropped right back but I don't feel it's made any difference?

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First things first: Get your mind of the gutter. If you already think that you´re going to get stapled, you´re going to get stapled.

On to the physical part: 531 is a very open program, so there are many ways to go at it. A thing I tried in my short 531 time that has helped me was just to do my worksets normally and then repeat the first workset with a 2second pause in the hole. I relied on feeling with this, so sometimes I first took on the second set, then the first and then called it quits and othertimes I just repeated the first workset a couple of times.

Paused squats are probably your best bet. From a quick view of your log it looks like your lower body gets relatively little attention, so you might want to throw in some more leg and low-back and abwork. Lunges, legpresses, backraises, GMs and standing abs are your friends.

Also, what about form? Once I started taking the stretch reflex seriously, the bottom part of my squat has become a lot better. Do you keep your upper back and midsection tight? If there´s some rounding there, you´ll end up in a less efficient position to squat as the bar falls forward. and so on ...

hope that helps!

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How about box squats? I have no experience with them but I've heard they help.

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First things first: Get your mind of the gutter. If you already think that you´re going to get stapled, you´re going to get stapled.

On to the physical part: 531 is a very open program, so there are many ways to go at it. A thing I tried in my short 531 time that has helped me was just to do my worksets normally and then repeat the first workset with a 2second pause in the hole. I relied on feeling with this, so sometimes I first took on the second set, then the first and then called it quits and othertimes I just repeated the first workset a couple of times.

Paused squats are probably your best bet. From a quick view of your log it looks like your lower body gets relatively little attention, so you might want to throw in some more leg and low-back and abwork. Lunges, legpresses, backraises, GMs and standing abs are your friends.

Also, what about form? Once I started taking the stretch reflex seriously, the bottom part of my squat has become a lot better. Do you keep your upper back and midsection tight? If there´s some rounding there, you´ll end up in a less efficient position to squat as the bar falls forward. and so on ...

hope that helps!

Thanks Daniel - it does indeed. I have been doing weighted hypers now moving onto GMs as well as hanging leg raises for back/abs - but maybe I can add some legpresses on Deadlift days - get a bit more leg strength in there...

I will also be making sure that on all my worksets I am pausing in the hole.

Thanks jpez - will see if I can use a bench as could be right height for box squats...if the above suggestions don't work.

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I will also be making sure that on all my worksets I am pausing in the hole.

Just squat normally for your regular worksets and then do paused squats.Just repeat your first workset paused for 1 or 2 sets to begin with this. I kinda get the impression that this is mainly a mental issue. Try visualizing your lifts before you do them to get into the spirit. There´s no room for doubts and second guessing yourself if you want to squat heavy!

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Just squat normally for your regular worksets and then do paused squats.Just repeat your first workset paused for 1 or 2 sets to begin with this. I kinda get the impression that this is mainly a mental issue. Try visualizing your lifts before you do them to get into the spirit. There´s no room for doubts and second guessing yourself if you want to squat heavy!

Ah I see - OK will do...

There could be a mental element - back doing SL 5x5 the squats had my knees in pieces - pure agony - so maybe theres a worry that will come back.

I think I will just invest in some proper knee wraps as well to give me the confidence they wont give out on me...

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Neil, I have had similar mental roadblocks when squatting heavy (at least for me). This week I did a 2 Rep set and a 1 Rep set that was significantly higher than anything I have lifted for a work set. I am hoping that dropping some weight off these 1-2 Rep sets I will no longer have the fear going off getting stuck in the hole when I go low.

The other thing I have heard is to purposely roll the bar off your back mid set (with safety pins set) so you will know it can be done and will not feel like you will get crushed by the bar.

I haven't had the balls to do this yet personally. More so cause the gym is crowded.

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Have you gotten pinned in the hole before? If not it does help to do it deliberately (if you have access to a power rack) just to know that its not so bad. Maybe try squatting more than 1x a week to build more confidence with the technique.

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Neil, you could try heavy walkouts after your warm up. Load up the bar with 50-100lbs more than your max and just unrack and hold it for 10 secs or so. Really gets you used to heavier weight and may even make your working set seem lighter.

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Thought it'd be good to share this here, Wendler's thoughts on using a box to know where parallel is:

Another popular argument in using a box for squatting is that it allows a lifter to know where parallel is. For a raw squatter, this is a ridiculous statement. At some time, you're going to have to learn where parallel is and it might as well be now. Get rid of the damn box, grow some balls, and get down there. Even a light tap on the box (which many people use) isn't a good idea. You're still searching for the box and altering your form. You can‘t learn how to effectively bounce out of the hole with a box underneath you. Well, I guess you can, but that‘s your spine, not mine. So stop pussyfooting around and do it right.

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Wendler does have a colorful way of putting things. However, I can say for sure that the box did help me. I was dealing with two major problems with my form, and unless you have a coach right there with you, you need something outside of yourself to aid you. Once I got the flexibility thing straightened out, and my foot position straightened out, I only used the box for warmup sets, and got rid of it for the work sets.

That's how I fixed my squat.

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You'll have to pull my foam box from under my cold dead glutes!

For me, as I have no training partners to tell me when I squat high, I will use my non spinal compressing foam indicator. I never "feel around" for the thing, but it assures me of depth every time I squat. Maybe after a few years of squatting i will forego it, but I don't see the point in not using it now just because Jimbo sez so.

Wendlers Macho hyperbole is amusing though, I remember telling guys to keep their eyes open when I punched them in the head since--"you can't slip what you can't see coming"...

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