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Guest ExperimentB76z

Evidence That Taints Intermittent Fasting?

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Guest ExperimentB76z

This came up on the BBC today. I've not looked up the research because I'm on my lunch and a bit busy.

Initial reaction is, even if it's well designed, it probably does not apply to people who are aware of what they're eating. And once you have broken the fast, you are going to feel less inclined to eat more / calorie dense foods.

<<full disclosure - I IF>>

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I am pretty sure this is aimed at general population with self-control issues, horrible eating habits and terrible lifestyle choices...

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I am pretty sure this is aimed at general population with self-control issues, horrible eating habits and terrible lifestyle choices...

I resent this remark! :D

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Guest ExperimentB76z

I am pretty sure this is aimed at general population with self-control issues, horrible eating habits and terrible lifestyle choices...

I agree. Interesting nonetheless.

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I resent this remark! :D

At least you are stronk! ;)

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I agree. Interesting nonetheless.

How about this one then? Pleasure Eating Triggers Body’s Reward System and May Stimulate Overeating:

In this study, researchers assessed eight satiated healthy adults, aged 21–33 years, feeding them each their personal favorite food and, later, a less-palatable food of equal caloric and nutrient value. Researchers periodically measured 2-AG and ghrelin levels. The plasma levels of ghrelin and 2-AG increased during hedonic eating, with the favorite foods, but not with non-hedonic eating. This increase suggests an activation of the chemical reward system, which overrides the body’s signal that enough has been eaten to restore energy.

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I dont' feel this is too damning...basically the participants were given a 730 calorie breakfast one day and another day they skipped breakfast.

"When the researchers offered the participants lunch at the end of the study, people ate a fifth more calories if breakfast was missed."

Now they don't quanitify the calories consumed at lunch, but a fifth more calories is still a reduction in total daily calories versus eating a 730 calorie breakfast, unless they were eating more then 3650 calories for lunch.

Bottom line,the way I read this study, even if you are prone to eating more after fasting through breakfast, you'll likely still eat fewer calories.

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Probably does not apply to people that are doing IF

Skipping breakfast and running a 16 hour fast window are a bit different. Plus people that are on IF are intending to diet, so i'd expect more self-control.

It would be interesting to know if the participants that skipped breakfast had coffee in the morning, sure as hell helps me put off food without getting too hungry (which probably leads to the extra 20% lunch consumption...which I think was mentioned as still being a deficit for the day)

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Probably does not apply to people that are doing IF

Skipping breakfast and running a 16 hour fast window are a bit different. Plus people that are on IF are intending to diet, so i'd expect more self-control.

It would be interesting to know if the participants that skipped breakfast had coffee in the morning, sure as hell helps me put off food without getting too hungry (which probably leads to the extra 20% lunch consumption...which I think was mentioned as still being a deficit for the day)

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one.

Also with IF, once you get used to eating that way it gets easier and easier. I haven't done IF in a while but if I remember correctly, after the first two weeks I never really craved extra food. The coffee is a good way to keep your energy up as well. I love coffee anyway, so that was a staple for me as well.

IF is definitely a lot different than someone that constantly 'needs' to eat that has their pancakes taken away suddenly and can't handle it.

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They're really not going to say what comprised the 730 calories or the food choices available at lunch? Seriously? No regard to protein or carb content, just "high-calorie" foods? There's a world of difference between 1,000 calories of steak and 1,000 calories of pancakes in terms in satiety and BG levels after the meal.

I also wonder if they offered them "typical" breakfast foods and "typical" lunch foods. If so, you'll have the fed group going into lunch full of protein and fat, so they will certainly be less hungry. Conversely, the fasted people will be walking into a room full of sandwiches and what-not, with a very high carb>protein ratio.

I'd love to see the study where a third group eats a bowl of cereal in the morning -- I'll bet quite a lot that they would be the hungriest of the three groups at lunchtime.

Disclosure:I typically IF but I am eating eggs,bacon, cottage cheese and berries for breakfast right now.

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Guest ExperimentB76z

It's hardly damning. But it does *in limited circumstances* and *possibly* take some of the shine of the IF mantra that fasting makes you less hungry.

I IF because I find it easier to control my daily kcals, and I'd prefer to consume my macros around my workout.

And yeah, coffee is awesome for curbing hunger (whether that's a placebo effect or not).

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Personally, I think IF should make you eat a bigger meal. The calories have to come in a shorter amount of time. Eating good quality food in a few meals is much better than grazing on junk all day.

Personally, I think it's the all hours snacking and eating that get most people in trouble.

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Oh, no doubt, though I think most people doing IF are forming the base of their food pyramid with protein.

The initial premise of IF was that humans didn't have food all the time and are therefore well-adapted to periods of fasting. The corollary to that is that, in that same environment, we didn't have free access to extremely high-carb foods with low satiety but instead had access to either meat or vegetables/roughage. High calorie foods, perhaps, but they were always satiating.

Interestingly, there does appear to be a gender difference when it comes to fasting, with males tolerating it much better than females. Anecdotally, we recently discovered that cavewoman has better BG control when NOT fasting. When it's time to eat, she would get HUNGRY -- as in, she had to eat right away. On the other hand, my BG will chill right around 80 all day long whether I breakfast at noon or 4pm and I'll just forget to eat if I'm busy.

I can't think of any explanation for this other than the "women tended to forage more throughout the day and men hunted, eating a huge meal at the end of the day" theory, but I figured that would've been more cultural than biological.

Did this study distinguish between genders at all?

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It's hardly damning. But it does *in limited circumstances* and *possibly* take some of the shine of the IF mantra that fasting makes you less hungry.

I IF because I find it easier to control my daily kcals, and I'd prefer to consume my macros around my workout.

And yeah, coffee is awesome for curbing hunger (whether that's a placebo effect or not).

I dont think it's placebo, coffee is just magical

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Guest ExperimentB76z

I dont think it's placebo, coffee is just magical

I have cut many people in half on coffee. Or was that coke.

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I have cut many people in half on coffee. Or was that coke.

It was probably coke cut with PCP

That's my go to pre-workout stack

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Also with IF, once you get used to eating that way it gets easier and easier. I haven't done IF in a while but if I remember correctly, after the first two weeks I never really craved extra food.

This right here. Most days now I don't even get hungry until 10-10:30 (after being up by 4am). I think Martin has a good section on leptin set points which explains this. I would think if you eat breakfast every other day you're not even giving your body a chance to adjust. I know if I did I would be a mess.

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My cutoff is 8PM and sometimes I have to convince myself to start eating by the time it's 2PM.

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