Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
AdamW

The Average F'n Program: A Simple And Efficient Training Template

Recommended Posts

The name is so you, though. :)

Could keep it simple like "Wathan's 3x5"... or "The Beginner Program" with "the" in bold everywhere. :P

Hahaha, I do like the name and I'm sure anyone who has talked to me will appreciate it, but it is harder to reference in a sentence than "I'm currently running SL5x5/Madcow/531/Texas Method". Trying not to get too caught up in anything from a marketing point of view, but for ease of reference maybe something else is a better choice.

I guess AFP doesn't sound that bad though, haha...

Strongerlifts 3x5? Eh?? EH?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AverageLifts 3x5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, the thing that strikes me about this program is that it has two main lifts per day, yet is well-balanced and hits everything with enough frequency to drive beginner progress. You could do this and be in and out of the gym more quickly than SS and a lot more quickly than the old SL with assistance. It would be good for somebody tight on time, or somebody who wants to save some energy for another sport.

The Short Session LP? QuickLifts? RapidStrength? The In-and-Out LP?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like your train of thought steelcutoats, that's definitely what I was shooting for and a name that implies the simplicity/efficiency of the template is definitely a good idea!

It's too bad I didn't choose some cool user name instead of my real name, could've gone the Madcow route then! Or ran a gym with a tough name like Greyskull Barbell, haha...

For a minute I was pumped about the idea of calling it the Catalyst LP until I remembered about Catalyst Athletics run by Greg Everett... Would've been a cool name I think :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Train what's trainable, the important thing is the philosophy behind the structure of the template and not so much the fine details.

For sure. Just got back from the gym. I did the Deadlift day. I got 245 3x3 (did the 1st deadlift of my life on 1/3 so take it easy on me) and 160 bench 3x5.

I can also add chinups to the list of exercises that bother my shoulder though I did get through 11 reps before it started talking to me. Oddly bench is fine as long as I don't use a wide grip. I'm not sure of what to make of the situation because for instance right now I feel no pain whatsoever. I think my left shoulder in particular is just weak from a year old injury and recovery is much more of an issue than it would otherwise be. But I'm neither a doctor nor someone who's particularly knowledgeable when it comes to weightlifting so I'll error on the side of caution and see someone in the next week or so. In the meantime I'll continue squats/deadlift/rows/bench in the spirit of this program and continue making progress on those lifts. I'll start a log at some point soon. I'm just afraid I'll start one and then have to take a while off for rehab. Guess I could just log that too though.

As for the names, I'd vote AverageLifts 3x5 of those mentioned so far. It keeps your original name while making it catchier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget to include the "escalator of strength" guidelines....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm tossing around the idea of "The Groundwork LP", or "Groundwork S&C Program", "Groundwork Strength Template", etc. Kind of want to avoid the use of "3x5" in the title since I don't intend on limiting the template to just that rep scheme, and it's sort of a bandwagon term these days.

I like "Groundwork S&C Program" but there's really no conditioning component so it's sort of misleading, but I don't know if that really matters, I would argue that strength training still falls under the general scope of conditioning anyways, despite the word conditioning usually being used to describe cardiovascular conditioning.

The term Groundwork obviously is meant to imply a solid foundation, building a base level of strength and athleticism before specializing in a particular element of fitness. I think it's cool because it avoids the sort of cliched EliteStrength and PowerStrong style names, but maybe it's not specific enough to imply that it's a strength program. I don't really see the problem though because 5/3/1 isn't specific, nor is Madcow 5x5, Greyskull LP, etc.

I dunno, what do you guys think? Not really sold on it entirely but definitely the best idea I've had so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How About Wathans SDS (there's a double meaning in there, SquatDeadliftSquat AND StrengthDoneSimply) .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like that Neil!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of groundwork you could use one of several common phrases that mean the same thing like "nuts and bolts" or "meat and potatoes"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Hit-and-Quit-It LP ?

The two-by-three?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest ExperimentB76z

It should just be called, "The Average F'n Program".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like 3x5 to 5x3 a lot, using that for someone I'm helping lately and its worked really well.

What if when you reach your limit with 3x5 you switch to 3x3 with the final set being an AMRAP set. By that point the trainee already knows good form and has good feeling for his/her limits, this may increase the fun factor. This seems like a pretty cool project you've got going on, I wish I would have dropped by sooner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What if when you reach your limit with 3x5 you switch to 3x3 with the final set being an AMRAP set. By that point the trainee already knows good form and has good feeling for his/her limits, this may increase the fun factor. This seems like a pretty cool project you've got going on, I wish I would have dropped by sooner.

This is exactly what I'm doing now. Taken a slight deload and managing 7 and 10 reps on Press and Bench respectively on the AMRAP set. Really looking forward to seeing what it does for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is exactly what I'm doing now. Taken a slight deload and managing 7 and 10 reps on Press and Bench respectively on the AMRAP set. Really looking forward to seeing what it does for me.

I did 5/3/1 for 12 cycles and didn't really care too much about the AMRAP sets and made very little to no progress. Six months away from 5/3/1 I decided to do it again and this time really go hard on the AMRAP. I think it can be the difference between progressing and not progressing in some circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gotta say, the AFP (Average F'n Program) is growing on me. You can substitute any F word your conscience is happy with (fantastic, fabulous, etc.)--but it doesn't sound wrong to put AFP next to SL or SS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest ExperimentB76z

I gotta say, the AFP (Average F'n Program) is growing on me. You can substitute any F word your conscience is happy with (fantastic, fabulous, etc.)--but it doesn't sound wrong to put AFP next to SL or SS.

I reckon F'n is a nice fit when you're talking about lifting iron; if it was flower arranging we were talking about then nope. Average fits too, since it's meant for the average chap or chapette. Program it is.

This is exactly what I'm doing now. Taken a slight deload and managing 7 and 10 reps on Press and Bench respectively on the AMRAP set. Really looking forward to seeing what it does for me.

I did 5/3/1 for 12 cycles and didn't really care too much about the AMRAP sets and made very little to no progress. Six months away from 5/3/1 I decided to do it again and this time really go hard on the AMRAP. I think it can be the difference between progressing and not progressing in some circumstances.

I'm really enjoying AMRAP on 5/3/1 - if nothing else it's a fun way of testing strength without placing an overly taxing burden on CNS. Though, on lighter weights for beginners, they may be there a while :) - nevertheless, nowt wrong with adding in some endurance early on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they progress where they can't make any more progress with 3x5, and have to do 3x3(+), I doubt they'll be able to be there for a long time.

For some reason, particularly with presses, I can grind out quite a few on 5s week and 3s week--but not so much on 1s week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great program! I like the AMRAP idea for the last set. Other then that I have always thought about cycling reps as a way to avoid always being 1 step away from a stall.

Like this depending on goal:

Strength

Week 1: 3 reps

Week 2: 4 reps

Week 3: 5 reps

Week 4: 6 reps

Then add weight and start back at 3 reps

Hybrid Strength/Size

Same as above except cycle from reps 5-8

Bodybuilder/Hypertrophy

Same as above except cycle reps from 8-12

Another approach could be to just mold the 1st two together (strength and hybrid) and go from 3 all the way to 8 before adding weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if when you reach your limit with 3x5 you switch to 3x3 with the final set being an AMRAP set. By that point the trainee already knows good form and has good feeling for his/her limits, this may increase the fun factor. This seems like a pretty cool project you've got going on, I wish I would have dropped by sooner.

Hey man thanks for checking out the thread!!

I love AMRAP for upper body especially, but I don't know if switching from 3x5 to 3x3 after stalling would really allow many extra reps on the last set. With the guy I am training now, we switched to 5x3 as soon as he stalled on 3x5 and because we're still increasing the weight he struggles to get 3 reps per set. I mean if someone misses pressing 135 for 3x5 so you move them to 5x3, there's no chance they are getting 7 reps on the last set, the whole reason the programming switched is because they couldn't get 5, haha...

I think the guy I'm training stalled at 125 3x5, and now we are up to 145 for 5x3, but he missed a rep a last week so we are repeating it this week. Once he stalls at 5x3, we'll probably deload and take another run with 3x5 starting at the weight he stalled at originally and switch to 5x3 again when he stalls, hopefully getting another 10 or 15 pounds out of the process. After that I'll probably set him up with 5/3/1 on his pressing.

I want to include something in the write up about ways to modify the rep scheme and how you can include AMRAP stuff if you want so I definitely will, thanks for bringing it up! The nice thing about this program is that I don't really intend for it to be "you have to do this many sets and this many reps", it's really more about the layout, that's the part I really like. 2 lifts per day and setup in a way that optimizes performance for each lift by pairing the right exercises and allowing the right recovery throughout the week. You can take this template and apply the progression scheme behind lots of other programs to it no problem. You could easily make this a 5/3/1 template for example, or use the Greyskull LP set/rep scheme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn name issue is still driving me nuts to be honest, haha...

What I don't like about The Average F'n Program is that if I didn't know any better and I saw a thread titled that, I would think it was going to be someone criticizing typical training programs that guys at the gym use. It only really works in the context of this forum because of the big AFG discussion months back in the Ex-SL Members thread. I don't want people to skip over reading the thread or reading about the program because the name gives them the impression that it's something it isn't.

I guess really I just want some identity for the program that isn't pretentious, doesn't sound like the name of a T-Nation supplement (we were joking in the chat about calling it the IronBeast 3x5 :lol: ) and it unique enough that it doesn't just sound like another program with a couple words swapped out. Examples of names I like for other programs are 5/3/1 (unique, easy to remember, catchy, no BS hype in the name), Greyskull LP (simply the name of the gym where it started getting used followed by LP, because that's what it is), and the CFWF Program (same deal). More and more the idea of incorporating IronStrong into the name is growing on me not so much for the branding reason, but because that's where the program came from, through discussions between me and other IS members, but at the same time I have no interest in labelling the program in a way that makes it sound like it's supposed to be "the official IS novice program" or anything, so I don't know.

Bah. Why is it so hard to come up with a non-cheesy straightforward name for a program?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because you aren't a marketer. Now if only you'll take the corporate lobotomy, this transition to marketing would be so much easier. On the plus side it could be a crap name, but you wouldn't care. On the bad side it could be a crap program and you wouldn't care either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No B.S. spells Nobs. A beginner program by nobs for nobs may not attract a lot of buzz though. :)

IronStrong NoBS 3x5

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×