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About Wanderlei

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    Heavy Lifter

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  1. preworkouts

    I'll agree with this and i touched on it earlier. Pre workout is a great tool, but dependency on them is an issue. I have been there myself and it can be quite hard to get out of as once you're fully addicted workouts are SO hard without it, best thing to do is just cycle on and off to reset caffeine tolerance. I try to only take it when i'm cutting and need the energy, don't really bother with it when bulking.
  2. preworkouts

    Things like caffeine, and DMAA are legal and offer appreciable effects on workout performance. Beta alenine over time gives appreciable effects too. No idea if this stuff is banned by WADA (I know DMAA is dunno about other stimulants), but i don't compete so don't care There's a lot of pre workouts out there simply ripping people off with glorified coffee, but if you shop around there's decent deals to be had.. anyway i think i've exhausted this topic lol
  3. preworkouts

    That only matters if you're competing
  4. preworkouts

    I never stated my friend can lift 260kg bench press because he takes pre workouts (and i never said he 'swears by it', i simply said he takes it - im sure he would lift close to the same with or without it), i was pointing out that just because your 'strongmen and powerlifter' buddies dont take it, doesn't mean it's crap and no notable strength athlete takes it. Please try not to put words in my mouth. I brought up strongmen and powerlifters because in your first post here you said that you know strongmen and powerlifters who take chocolate milk instead of pre workout, acting like it's some kind of reason not to take it! It's also amazing that without seeing, or knowing anything about my friend you can make a statement like "genetics account for the largest portion of his success". It may or may not be true, but it's a poor assumption to make with absoloutly 0 knowledge of the individual. Again, why do you keep talking about nutrient timing? Why does it matter? You take pre workout before your workout, sure, but if something has a compounding effect, such as beta alanine over time it still has a postitive effect and should be discussed. Or should we ONLY discuss the ingredients in pre workout that have an immediate effect??? If i take a pre workout with beta alenine in it, i might not feel or see the effects from the beta alinine the first time i use it, but if i use it 10 times, then the effects will be there purely because of the pre workout, so why are you dismissing these ingredients because their effects aren't 'immediate'? Also, most pre workouts, at least the ones i come across DO NOT HAVE CALORIES OR CARBS IN THEM (or if they do, a negligible amount, like 4-5 cals a scoop), which is another reason that whilst i am cutting, or if i am trying to stay lean i find pre workout superior to chocolate milk. I don't know if you've ever been very lean, but i can tell you from experience when you are trying to sit at sub 10% bodyfat, the difference between taking something that is 2-300 calories before every workout, and taking something that is 8 calories (2 scoops of pre workout) is quite significant. Nitric oxide is well documented as a vasodilator, what effects that has are up for question, but remember a lack of research isn't the same as proof something doesn't work. For now we can say the jurys out here. Regarding DMAA there will hopefully be more research now the ban is lifted in the US, but regardless all you have to do is take it once and the effects on performance are blatantly obvious. Whether it's healthy for you in the long run is a different story and where the lack of proper research comes in, but to ignore it's performance benefits is lunacy. As for the cost of pre workout, well you pay for the convenience but really is it that much more expensive than using chocolate milk? Let's say i lift 4x a week, and i take 2 scoops. My pre workout is $25 for 50 servings, i take 2 servings per workout which means it's costing me 1 dollar per workout. To get similar effects from chocolate milk, you would at the very minimum have to stack it with caffeine pills (for it to be a 'fair' comparison you should also be taking beta alinine and creatine too really but we'll ignore that for now), is there really going to be a massive difference in cost? There's probably a small amount but i'll take that for the convenience and other ingredients in the pre workout personally (not everybody will - that's perfectly fine). Your last sentence is just ridiculous (to me at least), because that's what i've been arguing the whole time. I've said pre workout has it's place for some people/situations but not for everyone, and you pretty much dismissed it and said chocolate milk is a superior alternative. Perhaps YOU don't get much out of pre workout, but it's ignorant to think that just because you don't it's useless. You then went on to ignore all my points about why chocolate milk is inferior for SOME people/situations (no stims, worse effect on body composition than pre workout). I never said you are stupid for suggesting chocolate milk, i suggested it is narrow minded to suggest chocolate milk is simply superior to pre workout in all situations - again putting more words in my mouth! When people flat out ignore me, and put words in my mouth i tend to get annoyed, and find that equally as insulting as you found my post. Again, let me state my original point as simply as I can: "For a number of people, pre workout has it's place and is useful.. such as people who are perhaps plateuing and need a boost, and people who have to be mindful of their calorific intake. Chocolate milk has its place, as does any similar sugary drink, or coffee but there will be a number of situations where pre workout will be superior (and a number of situations where it may not be)." At the end of the day the guy asked about what pre-workouts people take, not why you think pre workouts are shit. If you want to continue this discussion, i'd very much appreciate it if you respond to what i've actually said rather than shoving words in my mouth.
  5. preworkouts

    Chocolate milk and a caffeine pill won't have the same effect, in addition the chocolate milk calories are something many of us can do without if we want to stay lean. Sure that isn't everyones goal, but your post pretty much implied chocolate milk is superior pre workout in all situations because you know some strongmen and powerlifters who choose to drink it instead of pre workout. One thing to note is, strongmen and powerlifters often don't care about being lean. When you're sitting around 10% bodyfat, regularly taking a couple of hundred calories of chocolate milk pre workout vs taking an almost calorieless pre workout can and will make a significant difference. Without doing the maths, i'd also wager there isn't really that much of a cost difference between a 50 serving tub of pre workout + water than enough caffeine pills and chocolate milk for the same volume. You honestly think chocolate milk isn't more detrimental to your diet than pre workout? My pre workout has 5 calories per scoop (and i take two), chocolate milk probably has 2-300 calories in a glass, and for me that can be enough to push me over my calorific goal. Pre workout probably isn't good for you if abused and taken for long periods, but in terms of body composition i'm sorry but it is certainly superior to chocolate milk lol. i question how much you've really researched pre workout if you think calorifically it's similar to chocolate milk. Most pre workout nowdays has next to 0 calories in it. I'm all for science and here's ingredients in one of my pre workouts that have proven and well documented beneficial effects on performance: - caffeine - pretty obvious here, usually need to cycle off if you become too tolerant (which takes 7-14 days), definitely has a very well documented effect. - creatine - pretty well proven too, has a compounding effect over time and not immediate. - Nitric oxide - well documented effect on vascodilation and blood flow - Arginine - Some evidence to suggest that it helps increase blood flow and pumps, but admittedly the evidence isn't very strong currently. - beta alenine - again not an 'immediate' effect as you pointed out but how does that make it any more worthless? Strong evidence suggesting increased endurance over time, and has also been shown to stack well with creatine. - DMAA - well documented effects, if you've taken DMAA and think it does nothing you're insane There are lots of fillers in pre workouts that may or may not have an effect also, but really pre workout isn't that expensive and the OP asked specifically about which ones people like. I suggested also making your own which can save money and then you know exactly what's going in. Also, you said only carbs have an effect with nutrient timing, then said 'oh caffeine does too'. There's several ingredients that work very fast in pre workout, and several that don't, but why does it matter? If they have an effect on your performance over time, that is still a positive effect on your performance Am i saying pre workouts are magic and for everybody? Of course not.. it's definitely not something you need but it's a tool that can be useful to many people myself included. For you to dismiss them immediately and suggest chocolate milk is a superior alternative is simply narrow minded in my opinion.
  6. preworkouts

    lol why is everybody so against pre workout? If you don't want to take it, cool, but it has its place, just because you know some powerlifters who dont take it doesn't make it useless. My training partner holds the UK bench raw record of 260kg, and he takes pre workout every session! Sure you dont NEED it, but it is a tool and it has it's place. Chocolate milk doesn't have caffeine, beta alenine and other ingredients found in pre workouts which do make a significant difference. Under the same logic you don't need a belt, you don't need straps, you don't need wraps, you don't need a multivitamin, and you don't need whey protein., these are all tools and not stuff you 'need'. Also from a strictly body composition point of view, pre workout is far superior to chocolate milk lol. If i'm cutting i cannot fit chocolate milk into my diet but pre workout has next to no calories. To answer your question OP, here's a few suggestions: - Mesomorph - new formula in 2016, DMAA ban has been lifted so it's very strong, if you're new to pre workouts i'd give it a miss. - The curse - nice steady flow of energy, what i currently take and i like it a lot. - Cellucor c4 - similar to the curse - ON Gold standard pre workout - quite like this aswell Or you can make your own. Get some gatorade or some juice you like, buy a big bag of caffeine powder and a big bag of beta alenine and whatever other ingredients you need. be VERY careful when dosing caffeine though, as you'll be dosing milligrams...it's very easy to accidentally take a teaspoon which is around 5g and i can tell you taking 5g of caffeine is far from a pleasant experience.
  7. U F C

    Bumping dead topic for UFC 205 ON SATURDAY!
  8. Sumo Or Conventional ??

    Sumo is 'not' better. If conventional works better for you then stick with it, if sumo works better stick with it.
  9. Excess Creatine

    You should be extremely worried. You wasted perfectly good creatine! In all seriousness, no, no need to worry.
  10. Knee Pain

    See a good physio.
  11. U F C

    ^ Spoke too soon
  12. The 200Lbs Rule

    Still waiting on thread..
  13. Yohimbe

    I take it currently (it's in lipo 6 black I have) I know robnar has taken it too, it works but I don't have evidence for it so I don't expect you to beleive me. It definately increases anxiety though and makes you feel... different. It helped me break a plateu in my cut, so I would just take it for the last few lbs. There IS evidence for yohimbine and weight loss though, I will dig it out when I get home and report back. [EDIT]https://thinksteroids.com/articles/fat-loss-yohimbine-02/
  14. The 200Lbs Rule

    I'm 192lbs, does this mean that I am not 70s big and cannot pose in my tighty whities ((